By Ruth young

Like most things nowadays, I first started thinking about the arts—and what that scene is like in Toronto—after watching a TikTok. This particular video looked at the lack of new productions on Broadway and the challenges faced by producers competing with legacy shows like Chicago or Rent, which got me thinking about the theatre scene here. On many of my evening walks with my dog, I’ll pass the Princess of Wales Theatre, and all I’ve seen lately are huge posters for Les Miserables. But I have no idea what’s showing or premiering at the smaller theatre venues across the city.

The challenges facing Toronto’s indie artists have been top-of-mind for a lot of people recently. The Local just published a special Art + Money issue looking into exactly this topic, and to be honest, it paints a bit of a grim image, arguing that art institutions in the city are “crumbling.” And, as writer Soraya Roberts argued, “the trouble at Hot Docs, TIFF, Artscape and the AGO are part of a larger failure in a country that doesn’t take art seriously.”

I wanted to hear more about what the future of arts in Toronto looks like. So, I sat down with Emily Jung, the director of communications at The Theatre Centre, to discuss the city’s art scene, the state of arts funding and what art and artists mean to Toronto. — Ruth Young

First off, how would you describe the art scene in Toronto right now?

In the context of Canada, Toronto is still where most artists will end up congregating, so I would say its art scene is full of really talented, very driven, very hardworking people—who, perhaps except for a very, very few, don't really find spaces to grow beyond small stages. Recently, Mayor Olivia Chow increased Toronto Arts Council funding in her 2024 budget. That hasn't happened for a long time—but it’s never enough. I think the size of the Toronto Arts Council funding is really, really small for a city like Toronto, and especially considering how Toronto is where art really collects from all over the country. I think it is very, very small compared to even other countries. So, it's a very vibrant art scene full of artists who are constantly just trying to survive and being gentrified out of their own city that they help make better.

Considering the arts can be a challenging field to be in, what initially made you want to be an arts worker?

I have always just loved art. I wanted to pursue visual art when I was younger and my parents, even though they are Asian parents, were like, ‘We know you will never be a doctor.’ They were very happy to support me in my arts education. But because we're first-generation immigrants, something that they thought was really, really important was understanding how the industry works here [as well]. So, they suggested that alongside my visual arts degree, I should also major in arts management, which would give me not just connections, but also an overview of what the industry I was about to go into looked like. I became an arts worker immediately out of school and even while I was in school. I've been working non-stop since third year. AndI've found opportunities in so many different disciplines of art—I worked at the Toronto International Festival of Authors. During the pandemic, I worked briefly at TIFF, I've interned at a visual art gallery. I really got the Toronto art boot camp.

You’re now working at The Theatre Centre. Why is this type of organization so important in Toronto’s current art scene?

So, the Theatre Centre is a pretty iconic company. The building that it stewards right now is a really cool thing to have in the city of Toronto, that I think a lot of people don't know about. The organization itself first started with a collection of five different theatre companies coming together to present really radical work. It has now grown into The Theatre Centre, which exemplifies what can happen if you transform a heritage building that isn't being used and you give it to artists to dream about. Every inch of it is being appreciated and used by the community.

During the Toronto mayoral arts debate, The Theatre Centre came up multiple times as something that needs to happen more in the city. Our regular cafe users and audiences are literally our neighbours. Sometimes I will put a call out on Instagram and somebody will just walk over from the neighbourhood. I think those kinds of things demonstrate how vibrant this Centre is making their direct community. Toronto is such a vast neighbourhood-centric city, so I think it's important for more of these kinds of buildings to happen.

And I just want to add, something that's not as apparent is our Residency program; it’s a pretty rare program where we just provide multi-year and really concentrated support to a small number of Residency artists, which is why, even though we don't produce works as frequently as other companies, the works that we do have really, really big impact. There's a lot of international interest in touring our most recent production, which was Ian Kamau’s Loss. Theatre Centre Production like Sea Sick by Alanna Mitchell toured to more than 10 cities around the world. They are very experimental things that just can't really happen sustainably, unless you do have that multi-year support for mid career artists. And I think that kind of a program is really lacking in the city. Toronto is a city where emerging artists have some stages and established artists will get stages, but not mid-career artists. So, that's why I think the Theatre Centre is a pretty important institution and organization.

When I was researching The Theatre Centre, I noticed that the Residency program is a two-year (or more!) program, which is different from many other programs that are often focused on producing projects within a short period of time. Why is this amount of time so important for your artists and their ability to create?

I think it's because we are committed to seeing it come to production in a way [that best reflects the artist’s vision], and sometimes one year or two years is not enough. And we very much believe in the process of each individual artist. Some of them will just take one or two years, but some of them take longer; Ian Kamau’s production Loss was in and out of Residency throughout the last seven years. The work is about intergenerational sort of grief that Ian’s community experiences. It's very, very heavy; it took a lot of research and a lot of work. I think the reason why Theatre Centre’ s Residency works, even though we hardly have any marketing budget, is because people come out and look forward to seeing those rare instances where very local artists, and sometimes Canadian artists, are able to [have their work] really come into fruition. They’re creating something that's deeply personal, because they've had time to foster it. And it's ambitious, because a lot of them are in their mid careers so they want to really expand and push the boundaries of the practice that they have been on. And so it's always [a] really special moment to get to witness Residency processes and productions.

It’s a program that allows for that growth.

And it allows the community to also witness that growth. We do Residency showings every year, so whoever would like can share their progress with the community. So, it just becomes a closer production to everyone—they know where it was a few years ago and they are waiting for it to premiere.

Switching gears just a touch, Toronto arts funding is not in the state that we'd obviously want to see it be in. I was wondering what you think this says about how we view arts funding in the city? And what does this say about who we think art is for?

So, this part I will answer as Emily outside of The Theatre Centre. I think it gives the impression that Toronto is not imagined [as a place with] art and artists. And that is not a reflection of the Toronto Arts Council. Actually, that's a reflection of the City of Toronto. There are some really incredible Toronto Arts Council programs that target really important issues—for example, the Toronto Lit Up program. It started back in 2017, I think, and it’s directly targeting the fact that publishers have a limited budget, so sometimes Toronto authors will not receive a book launch. Ever since the Toronto Lit Up program began to fund book launches, there's been so many book launches of Toronto authors throughout the city. And that helps booksellers sell more, and helps spotlight Toronto authors and writers during a time where our book market is heavily infiltrated by the U.K. and U.S. market, which is a much larger book market than the Canadian one. There’s the Artists in the Library program, the Art in the Parks program. And I think these can be amplified with more funding.

It's just so essential. What's happening now is, there's a pattern [where] artists would live in a very cheap neighbourhood that gets gentrified by people who are wealthier than them, who just come and experience the art. Then they get pushed out of that neighbourhood because they can't afford to live there anymore. And that cycle just continues. The new artists neighbourhood is all the way up at Dupont and Geary, and that's already being gentrified. Last time I went to an event there, I was kind of baffled because it's just so clear that artists are going to be [pushed] out due to rent hikes. It's also so far from the downtown core, and what happens to a downtown core without artists, without people activating them? People who really care about the infrastructure of Toronto, in a creative way, are not living there anymore. And the downtown core right now is a very different place to how some people might have imagined Toronto back in the day. I think that's a true reflection of how rapidly the city is changing without considering the key roles that artists play in keeping the city safe, and keeping the city livable, which should be a much more urgent topic in the city and should be really taken seriously.

I 100% agree with you. I live downtown and it’s a lot of grey. You don’t see any real sense of community. There's a little bit of it here and there at the dog park, because we all share the fact that we have a dog, but that's kind of it. You don't see any real community events popping up or things that are specifically geared towards the people who live in this area. What you do sometimes see are short term leases being given to boutiques or dessert spots, but that’s about it.

Exactly. So, our café/bar, for example, we often rent out to independent artists for free. Someone will say, ‘I just wrote a new book, come listen to a reading.’ These are the events that are now missing in our city. And if you look at the operational funding that The Theatre Centre receives, even in comparison to other companies, it's so small, because we haven't grandfathered in a chunk of funding compared to other older institutions. And it's also because we don't follow a traditional theatre model of putting [on] five shows a year, because we want to prioritize the integrity of the artwork that we want to produce and the artists that we want to support. So, our operational funding needs to change significantly for us to really have an impact in our neighbourhood. We're already doing that on a shoestring, but you know, that's not sustainable. And I think a lot of artists [and] a lot of arts organizations are going through the same thing.

These types of events are definitely something that I find are missing in this city. When you are putting on these events or shows, do you find that you're ever competing for an audience?

So our artistic director Aislinn Rose will often say the people that we're competing with are not other live art events, it’s people in the comfort of their home. It's because TV and Netflix are so entertaining and so accessible. So these kinds of things that make the entertainment experience hyper-individualized is what we are competing with, because we are in the market of providing a live, shared experience. We are perhaps competing with the fact that people are not really used to going to these events anymore.

When it comes to marketing your own events, do you try to expand your reach or do you keep it very community focused?

We try to expand our reach, but in a company like ours, marketing has to be de-prioritized. We need to prioritize our programming. Sometimes we're out there postering ourselves; a lot of it also happens on social media and in our newsletters. We did receive an Ontario Cultural Attractions Fund grant this year, which targets people who are living outside the city to learn more about The Theatre Centre, so this will be the first time in a while where I'll be able to afford transit advertising. But even that is so frustrating, because why is TTC advertising so inaccessible to me? I'm literally working for an arts and culture company that benefits arts and culture lovers in Toronto every single day and I can't afford a TTC ad most times of the year, at least on a meaningful level.

I never thought about the expense that goes into ads on the TTC! I live quite close to The Princess of Wales Theatre and the Royal Alexandra Theatre and constantly see posters or banners for Mirvish productions. I was wondering what it’s like for The Theatre Centre and organizations like it to work in the same realm as a for-profit company like Mirvish?

There isn't much conversation that happens between productions as large as the ones that Mirvish puts on and a very small company like the Theatre Centre. I think it's exciting to see that Mirvish has been working with companies like Crow’s Theatre and The Musical Stage Company to put on things that are, I think, a little more collaborative. Mirvish itself is a completely differently structured company than we are. They're a for-profit company, which is why you'll see them touring shows that are likely to sell, whereas most theatre companies in Toronto are nonprofits and usually work with very specific missions on what kind of art they want to produce and present. So, the nature of our communication is very different. The kind of audiences we're going to receive is very, very different.

I think it's a positive thing that people are seeing that live theatre is entertaining, and you know, Mirvish productions, like Wicked, are so spectacle-focused, so it’s a really magical experience. It's cool that so many people continue to love these legacy works. I think that is a little different from the kind of joy you get from engaging with local artists. Hopefully, a select few of the audience members who go to Mirvish shows become curious and explore and find our fire in a corner somewhere.

What would you like to see happen to make sure that there’s a robust independent theatre and overall art scene in the city?

There has to be a push to see local theatre from every level of society. And that's hard, because we live in a city where there are different intergenerational families; someone may have gone to see theatre with their grandparents when they were young, but someone else may never have that experience, because they just arrived in the country and they are making a minimum wage and a theatre ticket is going to be more expensive than their hourly wage, in many instances.

I think that kind of [push] has to happen in schools. Schools should take their students to see art in person. And I think there should be easier avenues for students and young folks to access art education and art. So, something like the Paprika Festival, which is a really unique festival that we have in Toronto, where a bunch of young emerging artists get to have theatre training throughout the year, culminating in a festival that gets celebrated by the city at the end. The funding that they receive is ridiculously low. It's so small, I can't believe it. But we need more things like Paprika. We need more resources put to organizations like Paprika.

More resources need to go into newer producing companies, such as artist collectives. They need to be more directly funded, rather than relying on institutions to give them spaces. We also need more space in the city; over the pandemic, so many dance spaces closed, so where are dancers and movers going to go and rehearse and experiment and come up with new, exciting experiences? We need more affordable rehearsal spaces.

And, we need a more sustainable income for artists. Something I personally advocate for is the fact that artists are heritage workers; they are contributing to the culture and the heritage of Toronto. It’s social work, it benefits the public, and they don't get compensated for it. But many years—like 20, 30 years later—that area, that region, those people, that city, that government, that history, is going to benefit from those artists. But those artists have now been burnt out and probably have left the arts. So, I think there needs to be change at every level in education, society and housing that needs to consider artists in its design.

Absolutely. It’s easy to think of art as something separate from the rest of society, but when you really look at it, it impacts and influences so many aspects of life, even though it might not seem like it.

The long-term impact of art is unquestionably important. And very cool.

What’s coming up next for The Theatre Centre?

Right now, we’re doing a really interesting year called 10 for 10. This is the 10th anniversary since we renovated 1115 Queen Street West into this cultural hub, so we're looking back at the last 10 years of the programming and looking forward to the infinite number of years we'll be here. We have so many cool, community-focused events that are going to take place.

In July, we're gonna close part of Lisgar Street by our building and throw a huge community barbecue. The Theatre Centre has a tradition called ‘Community Meals’—whenever we have an announcement, we don't do a press conference, we just invite our community and artists to eat together. Everybody is welcome. So, this an explosion of our community meal. We're gonna have a DJ, live music. It'll be great.

We're also going to have two shows at the SummerWorks Festival. And in October, we have Comedy is Art Festival. The comedy scene is so precarious and that's something that Liza Paul, who's the curator and our associate artistic director, really cares about, because she herself is a comedian. You’re usually just kind of thrown on stage here and there [as a comedian], but at Comedies As Art you get a proper rehearsal. You can ask for resources that you need, try different things and access consultation from our team—and we have a set designer and lighting designer who really make the stage beautiful. It's a really, really fun experience. So yeah—we have a full, full year ahead of us.

To stay up to date on all the exciting things going on at The Theatre Centre be sure to follow them on Instagram or TikTok @thetheatrecentre and check out their website for more information on upcoming 10 for 10 events.

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